NPR on Alberto Gonzales
National News
Submitted by Darwinsdisciple
This audio file is kind of a sweet (sometimes too sweet) history on the rise of Alberto Gonzales. In this NPR piece they describe the AG's fierce loyalty and his reputation for finding useful loopholes for his clients.
CF, is excused from the above homework assignment... :-)
This story from Slate describes one of the more stunning examples of the AG's skill in finding ways around pesky international law - a relevant quote:
"Curiously, it was in his role as legal counsel to then-Gov. Bush that Gonzales penned yet another memo pertaining to international law, only in that case his advice was designed not to avoid death sentences, but rather to expedite them on Texas' heavily populated death row. On June 16, 1997, Gonzales first showcased his proclivity for torturing international law when he sent a letter to the U.S. State Department in which he argued that, "Since the State of Texas is not a signatory to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, we believe it is inappropriate to ask Texas to determine whether a breach … occurred in connection with the arrest and conviction" of a Mexican national. Or, put another way, he asserted that an international treaty just didn't apply to Texas.
"The Mexican in question, Irineo Tristan Montoya, was a fisherman convicted of brutally stabbing and murdering John Kilheffer in Brownsville, Texas, in 1985. Tristan, who insisted he was innocent, was executed two days after Gonzales sent his memo to State, despite protests from the Mexican government. Mexico alleged that Texas had violated Tristan's rights under the Vienna Convention because it had failed to inform the Mexican consulate at the time of his arrest."
Whole story here:
I know it is supposed to be a "whole 'nother country" down there, but isn't this going a little far?
Vaughn Tolle said:
Sounds like AG AG might have been asleep or skipped Con Law class when the whole treaty, etc. discussion was had.
Gster said:
AG AG has come from low income background and managed to get a good education, achieve many lofty positions, etc.
But based on his past poor perfomances, when I look at him , I see a pedigreed weasel!
But based on his past poor perfomances, when I look at him , I see a pedigreed weasel!
darwinsdisciple said:
I remember hearing about this case from somewhere else. I did not realize the prisoner in question was executed so quickly after AG's intervention. He has a reputation for being very pro-death penalty.
It has been said that he was instrumental in getting the Bush administration to pull out of the following U.N. agreement that was designed to protect the rights of detainees, including Americans, held in foreign courntries:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/icj-m11....
Hope the site isn't offensive - I have see the same info elsewhere, but this summarized the situation well, I think.
It has been said that he was instrumental in getting the Bush administration to pull out of the following U.N. agreement that was designed to protect the rights of detainees, including Americans, held in foreign courntries:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/icj-m11....
Hope the site isn't offensive - I have see the same info elsewhere, but this summarized the situation well, I think.
Vaughn Tolle said:
dd, I see in the first paragraph of the lead off post you use the phrases "fierce loyalty" and "finding useful loopholes for his clients". I humbly submit this is what a retained attorney is to do, so long as the loyalty and finding loopholes is not violative of a law or ethical prohibition. The term ethical prohibition refers to the acts proscribed by the "ethical rules" adopted by the home jurisdiction of the attorney, not a violation of something generally felt to be "ethical".
I feel AG AG is incompetent for the position he holds, and should resign therefrom. However, the "fierce loyalty" and "finding...loopholes..." are not reasons therefor. Don't mean to offend; just pointing out something all of us practicing attorneys deal with daily.
I feel AG AG is incompetent for the position he holds, and should resign therefrom. However, the "fierce loyalty" and "finding...loopholes..." are not reasons therefor. Don't mean to offend; just pointing out something all of us practicing attorneys deal with daily.
darwinsdisciple said:
I agree, Vaughn. It is just that arguing that because Texas did not sign on to a Treaty makes said treaty inapplicable to the case at hand, seemed to me to be going way past the ethical line that exists.
In this case, AG AG's logic was seriously tortured (no pun intended). I will avoid the "lawyers" and "ethics" jokes that I know.
In this case, AG AG's logic was seriously tortured (no pun intended). I will avoid the "lawyers" and "ethics" jokes that I know.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Exactly so, dd, on the Texas not ratifying argument; see earlier post at 11:08 am.
Re: the jokes; I've likely heard (read) all that you know, and I suspect I've a few you don't in the collection.
Back to the mines (well, maybe; I've a few more threads to look at).
Re: the jokes; I've likely heard (read) all that you know, and I suspect I've a few you don't in the collection.
Back to the mines (well, maybe; I've a few more threads to look at).
WSClark said:
Not to hijack the thread - the topic is excellent - but I's just gotta know (Dirty Harry homage)- what is the Best Lawyer Joke you've heard, VT?
Jed said:
I Don't know- I've been to Texas and it really is a hole nuther country! They don't speak English and they don't obey speed limits and I've never seen so many shotguns in pickup windows in my life!
Vaughn Tolle said:
WS, I have a couple; one, dealing with lawyer who dies prematurely; another about the dogs of an engineer, a doctor and a lawyer and a pile of dog biscuits. Time and space considerations prevent the full text; perhaps, WS, you would favor me with your favorite(s)? BTW, if you have my email address, this might be better conducted "off the site" so to speak. Please forgive me if I don't respond quickly; the younger daughter arrives in ICT from ME tomorrow night for Spring Break, and we're gonna be a bit busy.
Proud Parent Brag: Younger Daughter, after a struggle Spring Semester, Freshman year, has righted the ship, and has made the Dean's List Spring, 2006 and Fall, 2006 semesters; even after her institution revised the criteria therefor in between; in Spring, 2006, all that was necessary was a 3.25 GPA; beginning with the Fall, 2006 semester, it is necessary to be in the top 30% GPA wise. She'll be a Senior next year, and my wife and I are already planning the great trip for Commencement and all things related thereto, (including without limitation a Lobster bake).
Proud Parent Brag: Younger Daughter, after a struggle Spring Semester, Freshman year, has righted the ship, and has made the Dean's List Spring, 2006 and Fall, 2006 semesters; even after her institution revised the criteria therefor in between; in Spring, 2006, all that was necessary was a 3.25 GPA; beginning with the Fall, 2006 semester, it is necessary to be in the top 30% GPA wise. She'll be a Senior next year, and my wife and I are already planning the great trip for Commencement and all things related thereto, (including without limitation a Lobster bake).
WSClark said:
Damn, that is great news VT. I am very happy for you and your family. You have a lot to be proud of.
Send our congratulations on to your daughter.
BTW - We expect that you WILL be bringing lobster back with you from Maine.
Send our congratulations on to your daughter.
BTW - We expect that you WILL be bringing lobster back with you from Maine.
WSClark said:
Back to the thread......... I find that the Gonzales techinque of trying to find ANY course around the intent of the law to be very disconcerting. In my mind, the top law enforcement agent of the country should be all about the spirit of the law as it was written, not about finding a way to circumvent the law, especially when it comes to the execution of an individual.
My biggest concern regarding the willful ignoring of international protocol is when it will be turned on an American citizen. Regardless of our inflated view of ourselves in the world, we HAVE to live by the same rules or we will pay for it in the end.
We rightfully expect other countries to observe valid treaties. It is certainly hypocritical of us to ignore those same treaties when it comes to the application of law in the United States.
My biggest concern regarding the willful ignoring of international protocol is when it will be turned on an American citizen. Regardless of our inflated view of ourselves in the world, we HAVE to live by the same rules or we will pay for it in the end.
We rightfully expect other countries to observe valid treaties. It is certainly hypocritical of us to ignore those same treaties when it comes to the application of law in the United States.
WSClark52 said:
More damning evidence on the Bush Administration plays politics with EVERYTHING. It is a long article but worth the read.
"New U.S. attorneys seem to have partisan records"
"Under President Bush, the Justice Department has backed laws that narrow minority voting rights and pressed U.S. attorneys to investigate voter fraud - policies that critics say have been intended to suppress Democratic votes."
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/1696275...
"New U.S. attorneys seem to have partisan records"
"Under President Bush, the Justice Department has backed laws that narrow minority voting rights and pressed U.S. attorneys to investigate voter fraud - policies that critics say have been intended to suppress Democratic votes."
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/1696275...
darwinsdisciple said:
I'd be inclined to bet that AG AG will be gone before he testifies on 04-17-07.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6510651,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6510651,00.html
darwinsdisciple said:
Sorry, Don't know what the problem is with the guardian link. From the WaPo:
"In the declaration presented to the Senate committee and released by her attorneys today, Goodling, 33, says Schumer, Leahy and other lawmakers have already 'drawn conclusions' about the U.S. attorney firings. As a result, Goodling says, she has decided to 'invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege against self incrimination and decline to answer any and all questions from the committee or its staff.'"
"'I have decided to follow my lawyer's advice and respectfully invoke my constitutional right, because the above-described circumstances present a perilous environment in which to testify,' Goodling says."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
Does it seem like a weird strategy to assert 'since those guys are bad and have already made up their minds, I won't talk.' - I am going, huh?
"In the declaration presented to the Senate committee and released by her attorneys today, Goodling, 33, says Schumer, Leahy and other lawmakers have already 'drawn conclusions' about the U.S. attorney firings. As a result, Goodling says, she has decided to 'invoke my Fifth Amendment privilege against self incrimination and decline to answer any and all questions from the committee or its staff.'"
"'I have decided to follow my lawyer's advice and respectfully invoke my constitutional right, because the above-described circumstances present a perilous environment in which to testify,' Goodling says."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
Does it seem like a weird strategy to assert 'since those guys are bad and have already made up their minds, I won't talk.' - I am going, huh?
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