Danny said:
Today's double installment of Technology Tuesday. Maybe I should call it that?
Linked Lists and Hash Maps are today's topics of discussion.
Linked Lists. As the name implies, this has something to do with a list. More specifically this will be list of objects or other data. Order can be important, in which case you'd have an ordered linked list, or order can be unimportant.
In an unordered list, data is put in much like it is in a queue(recall that a queue is a first in first out structure), but unlike a queue, data can be brought in any order! However, we find that when we are interested in a particular item in our list, we start at the beginning and move through the list one link at a time until we find the data we want. The same happens for remove also. In that sense, this data structure isn't really an excellent choice for large data sets.
What is the link then? A link is what connects the elements of the list together. A link generally just points to the next element in the list. There are exceptions, but we'll worry only about the simple cases today. So lets look at an example.
I have the numbers 1,2,5,7, and 6 to put in my list, so I add them to my list one at a time and in the order above and get something that looks like the following:
1->2->5->7->6->*
Now you might be asking, where did that asterisk come from. It is a way of representing the end of the list. Optionally I could put on at the front also, and have it represent the start of the list.
So in adding the numbers I've defined one method a Linked List will have, Add. Others include: Remove, Find, and a more fancy one RemoveAt.
So if using our list above, we want to Find 7 we'd start at the beginning and start looking and saying is this element 7?
1->2->5->7->6->*
^
And ask is 1 equal to 7, no? Then move the next link and repeat. So on and so forth until we get to the number 7. Which would require 4 checks to find the element we are interested. Now imagine if we had 1000 elements and 7 were the last element? So we can see unordered lists have the potential for some lengthy searches. Thus there is the concept of ordered lists. Which I can discuss at a later time.
HashMaps. Hashmaps are an interesting concept. They have a key and an object. The key is used to retrieve an object.
So lets say I have the following data items:
Linda, Vaughn, Tracy, and Danny. I want to put these into a HashMap. So lets say I assign an Id number to each of these.
We might get something like:
[1, Linda], [2, Vaughn], [3, Tracy], and [4, Danny].
These numbers, without going into alot of detail, would go through a function and come out something different when I add them to my hashmap. We get very good run times with a hashmap, but to avoid collisions(which is two keys generating the same hash) I have to have a large number of empty hash entries.
However, lookups are very fast, and storing them into the hash table is also very fast. All I need is, Get(1), and it will return Linda in constant time. As would Get(4), which will return Danny in the same time it took to return Linda.
Some operations include: Add, Get, Remove.
While not an indepth look at the very low level workings of a HashMap, it does provide another data structure that is good for certain uses. Though likely you would not want to use this for large data sets either.
Linked Lists and Hash Maps are today's topics of discussion.
Linked Lists. As the name implies, this has something to do with a list. More specifically this will be list of objects or other data. Order can be important, in which case you'd have an ordered linked list, or order can be unimportant.
In an unordered list, data is put in much like it is in a queue(recall that a queue is a first in first out structure), but unlike a queue, data can be brought in any order! However, we find that when we are interested in a particular item in our list, we start at the beginning and move through the list one link at a time until we find the data we want. The same happens for remove also. In that sense, this data structure isn't really an excellent choice for large data sets.
What is the link then? A link is what connects the elements of the list together. A link generally just points to the next element in the list. There are exceptions, but we'll worry only about the simple cases today. So lets look at an example.
I have the numbers 1,2,5,7, and 6 to put in my list, so I add them to my list one at a time and in the order above and get something that looks like the following:
1->2->5->7->6->*
Now you might be asking, where did that asterisk come from. It is a way of representing the end of the list. Optionally I could put on at the front also, and have it represent the start of the list.
So in adding the numbers I've defined one method a Linked List will have, Add. Others include: Remove, Find, and a more fancy one RemoveAt.
So if using our list above, we want to Find 7 we'd start at the beginning and start looking and saying is this element 7?
1->2->5->7->6->*
^
And ask is 1 equal to 7, no? Then move the next link and repeat. So on and so forth until we get to the number 7. Which would require 4 checks to find the element we are interested. Now imagine if we had 1000 elements and 7 were the last element? So we can see unordered lists have the potential for some lengthy searches. Thus there is the concept of ordered lists. Which I can discuss at a later time.
HashMaps. Hashmaps are an interesting concept. They have a key and an object. The key is used to retrieve an object.
So lets say I have the following data items:
Linda, Vaughn, Tracy, and Danny. I want to put these into a HashMap. So lets say I assign an Id number to each of these.
We might get something like:
[1, Linda], [2, Vaughn], [3, Tracy], and [4, Danny].
These numbers, without going into alot of detail, would go through a function and come out something different when I add them to my hashmap. We get very good run times with a hashmap, but to avoid collisions(which is two keys generating the same hash) I have to have a large number of empty hash entries.
However, lookups are very fast, and storing them into the hash table is also very fast. All I need is, Get(1), and it will return Linda in constant time. As would Get(4), which will return Danny in the same time it took to return Linda.
Some operations include: Add, Get, Remove.
While not an indepth look at the very low level workings of a HashMap, it does provide another data structure that is good for certain uses. Though likely you would not want to use this for large data sets either.
lindainks55 said:
No Child Left Behind Scandal Widens
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/no_chi...
A scathing report issued today documents "substantial financial ties" between key advisors of Reading First, a controversial federal reading grant program, and publishers who benefited from the program.
Bush Profiteers collect billions from NCLB
http://www.diatribune.com/bush-profiteers-collect-...
Several large corporations and their lobbyists have profited from Bush's NCLB by tapping billions of dollars in standardized testing and in "supplemental education services" funds since its passage in 2001. They're lining up now to expand their profit margins for the next six years as NCLB is being re-authorized.
Schools pile on English, math classes
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_5936588
Under federal pressure to increase scores on English and math tests, many low-achieving schools in the Bay Area and across the country are loading up students with two or even three periods of math and English and abandoning electives such as art, music and shop.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/no_chi...
A scathing report issued today documents "substantial financial ties" between key advisors of Reading First, a controversial federal reading grant program, and publishers who benefited from the program.
Bush Profiteers collect billions from NCLB
http://www.diatribune.com/bush-profiteers-collect-...
Several large corporations and their lobbyists have profited from Bush's NCLB by tapping billions of dollars in standardized testing and in "supplemental education services" funds since its passage in 2001. They're lining up now to expand their profit margins for the next six years as NCLB is being re-authorized.
Schools pile on English, math classes
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_5936588
Under federal pressure to increase scores on English and math tests, many low-achieving schools in the Bay Area and across the country are loading up students with two or even three periods of math and English and abandoning electives such as art, music and shop.
lindainks55 said:
We're too numb to be surprised any longer. I'm still amazed at how much this administration gets by with! Guess every politician of every party affiliation is bought and paid for.
I know coming after a grandmother is easier than going after the bad guys but I am getting more serious daily about that revolution. I think it's needed more than any time before!
I know coming after a grandmother is easier than going after the bad guys but I am getting more serious daily about that revolution. I think it's needed more than any time before!
Danny said:
The first issue seems to be a conflict of interest in having someone who has ties to a publisher recommending to states which publishers they should use to qualify for grant money. I'd agree that it should be looked into further.
The second. That is a long article. I'll have to read it later and comment then.
The third. I think that arts and music are just as important as math and science, and plus I think I've read that if a student is good in those areas math and science do follow. But I could have just dreamed reading that.
The second. That is a long article. I'll have to read it later and comment then.
The third. I think that arts and music are just as important as math and science, and plus I think I've read that if a student is good in those areas math and science do follow. But I could have just dreamed reading that.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, you didn't dream it. There are several studies that have been done which show exposure and training to music in early years (elementary) helps develop those parts of the brain responsible for future math, in particular, ability.
I've always thought the two were somehow related, as the elder was already quite proficient in arithmetic when she began the piano after second grade, and was quite good on the piano as she continued to excel in math. Her favorite keyboard composer? J.S. Bach, whose music was quite mathematical, I'm told. I understand his compositions may be graphed, the same being so regular, etc.
I've always thought the two were somehow related, as the elder was already quite proficient in arithmetic when she began the piano after second grade, and was quite good on the piano as she continued to excel in math. Her favorite keyboard composer? J.S. Bach, whose music was quite mathematical, I'm told. I understand his compositions may be graphed, the same being so regular, etc.
Vaughn Tolle said:
BTW, her major in college was Math, with a concentration in Biochemistry. She's finishing her Master's in Biomedical Engineering and a Master's in Education at the University of Minnesota this summer, where her hubby is working on his Ph.D in Physics. I needed to brag on the elders some, as I've bored y'all with the younger quite a bit. The reason for the Master's? Funding cutoff for the Ph.D project in Biomedical Engineering, which would require starting over with a new lab, etc., to be in school another four years. The Ed. degree is to obtain licensure, so she has a shot at jobs at various small colleges/community colleges in MN.
lindainks55 said:
I'm always tickled to hear about your daughters! Does my heart good to hear such a proud Daddy and am also relieved to know we have such wonderful people in our future! We need that talent to straighten out the world we're giving them.
I'll bet our kids would have fun cussin' and discussin'.
So are there grandchildren on the horizon. I know we can't ask such questions but wondered if they had given any indication.
My oldest daughter has five children, four sons 14 - 19 and a daughter 9. About the time the third or fourth was announced I did the unforgiveable and asked a very unnecessary question. Should have known not to ask in the first place and wasn't surprised at the answer. It went like this:
Me: Tonya Lynn, don't you know what causes that!?
Tonya: Yes, Mother, and we like it!
I DO NOT reccomend anyone asking such nosy uncivilized questions. I can't imagine what prompted me to be so downright rude. I deserved the response which was delivered in very icy tones!
I'll bet our kids would have fun cussin' and discussin'.
So are there grandchildren on the horizon. I know we can't ask such questions but wondered if they had given any indication.
My oldest daughter has five children, four sons 14 - 19 and a daughter 9. About the time the third or fourth was announced I did the unforgiveable and asked a very unnecessary question. Should have known not to ask in the first place and wasn't surprised at the answer. It went like this:
Me: Tonya Lynn, don't you know what causes that!?
Tonya: Yes, Mother, and we like it!
I DO NOT reccomend anyone asking such nosy uncivilized questions. I can't imagine what prompted me to be so downright rude. I deserved the response which was delivered in very icy tones!
Danny said:
Speaking of dreams, depending on what I'm doing before I go to bed will dictate whether or not I remember my dream(and to my knowledge actually have any dreams for the night).
If I'm writing code before I go to bed(frequently do this), I'll end up dreaming a solution to a problem. I've done this a few times, and woke up in the middle of a dream to go try what I dreamed, sometimes it works. ;)
However, I usually don't remember enough to really go code what I thought I coded. Oh well. Speaking of coding, I've been working on my little card game, though what I have on my website has a few 'bugs' in it, the third iteration is coming along nicely and addressing some of the more difficult areas I had in the last version. I may share my website at some point, just haven't yet. Though someone could probably find it easily enough.
Linda,
Sounds like my family. I think my wife and I responded along the same lines as your daughter. Though in a more jokingly fashion to embarrass my mom! Hehe.
If I'm writing code before I go to bed(frequently do this), I'll end up dreaming a solution to a problem. I've done this a few times, and woke up in the middle of a dream to go try what I dreamed, sometimes it works. ;)
However, I usually don't remember enough to really go code what I thought I coded. Oh well. Speaking of coding, I've been working on my little card game, though what I have on my website has a few 'bugs' in it, the third iteration is coming along nicely and addressing some of the more difficult areas I had in the last version. I may share my website at some point, just haven't yet. Though someone could probably find it easily enough.
Linda,
Sounds like my family. I think my wife and I responded along the same lines as your daughter. Though in a more jokingly fashion to embarrass my mom! Hehe.
Vaughn Tolle said:
That's OK, Linda; it seems there will be no planned grandchildren until after the Ph.D is obtained by her husband, which is in keeping with his family tradition (both his mother and father have Doctorates, and deferred family until after the educational process was completed). Heck, my wife and I were >30 when the elder came.
Vaughn Tolle said:
OK, a bit of a story on the elder. When we met with my wife's sister and brother-in-law to introduce the new "son-in-law to be" (at that time), the luncheon conversation turned to, in no particular order, physics, chemistry, calculus, children's literature, college, accounting (my sister-in-law is on the accounting faculty at KSU), graduate school, music, and several other topics which escape memory. We were at a place in Manhattan where there's paper on the table, and crayons in a glass for young ones. Anyway, there were integrals, chemistry formulae, staffs with musical notation, etc., scrawled on the paper. Upon leaving, my wife's brother-in-law came over to me and said, "When those two have children, Fisher Price is going to need to add an entire new line!", he being suitably impressed by the raw intellectual power on display.
(Re-reading, it's not as humorous as when in person; guess you had to be there.)
(Re-reading, it's not as humorous as when in person; guess you had to be there.)
Danny said:
VT,
If you don't mind, who is your Sister in law? I've had several friends go through accounting here at KSU and as a result thought about taking an accounting class or two.
That place in Manhattan sounds like Little Apple Brewery! This reminds me of the time where I, one of my friends, and boss went there and we sketched out my idea for my own game(not work related though). All over the place you would have found class names, data flow diagrams, network usage, etc. So while maybe not 'humorous' I did find the story enjoyable!
I rarely talk about my currently one daughter and soon to be arriving(July) mostly because of her age, she is two. But she likes it when I read to her, so when I was taking Engineering Physics, I'd read the book out loud while and take notes from it, and she'd sit there and look(or at least fake having an interest). But I bought a Lego Mindstorm kit, so as my children get older they can play with something that can foster imagination and intelligence both while having the potential to make some useful items with it.
If you don't mind, who is your Sister in law? I've had several friends go through accounting here at KSU and as a result thought about taking an accounting class or two.
That place in Manhattan sounds like Little Apple Brewery! This reminds me of the time where I, one of my friends, and boss went there and we sketched out my idea for my own game(not work related though). All over the place you would have found class names, data flow diagrams, network usage, etc. So while maybe not 'humorous' I did find the story enjoyable!
I rarely talk about my currently one daughter and soon to be arriving(July) mostly because of her age, she is two. But she likes it when I read to her, so when I was taking Engineering Physics, I'd read the book out loud while and take notes from it, and she'd sit there and look(or at least fake having an interest). But I bought a Lego Mindstorm kit, so as my children get older they can play with something that can foster imagination and intelligence both while having the potential to make some useful items with it.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, her name is Jo Lyle. Her official title, as I recall, is "Instructor". Interestingly, she went back to school at KSU after her 2 children were older, to gain her degree in Accounting, followed by a Master's in Accounting. Somewhere along the line, she took and passed the CPA exam. My wife had majored in accounting at KU (several years earlier), as had I. Jo's original degree from KU was in history or political science, or something along those lines, I forget. I understand she can be tough in class.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Oops, should have said "several years earlier than when her sister went back to school", as Jo is the older one.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
That is cool. I'll share a story, I never could pay attention in classes that were "easy." I'd get too bored, and boredom for me is my downfall. When I get bored with something I really have to fight with myself to get through it and do work for it. So challenging, tough, etc is fine so long as the material was taught that I needed to know to the work.
An exception to the material being taught, Engineering Physics 2. I taught myself EP2 starting the third week of class and ended up with a B. My reasoning, I went in to ask a question about a problem and for the life of me didn't remember the circumference of a circle equation. My professor recommended that there was no reason to attend class because I was "too stupid" to understand it. I taught myself, by reading the book, doing the homework, doing the labs, didn't ask any questions of anybody, did the tests, and got a B. EP2 is mostly the electromagnetic part of physics and generally the harder of the first two physics courses one would take. I didn't find it bad, just froze up when I'm getting asked questions while I was asking for help.
That is cool. I'll share a story, I never could pay attention in classes that were "easy." I'd get too bored, and boredom for me is my downfall. When I get bored with something I really have to fight with myself to get through it and do work for it. So challenging, tough, etc is fine so long as the material was taught that I needed to know to the work.
An exception to the material being taught, Engineering Physics 2. I taught myself EP2 starting the third week of class and ended up with a B. My reasoning, I went in to ask a question about a problem and for the life of me didn't remember the circumference of a circle equation. My professor recommended that there was no reason to attend class because I was "too stupid" to understand it. I taught myself, by reading the book, doing the homework, doing the labs, didn't ask any questions of anybody, did the tests, and got a B. EP2 is mostly the electromagnetic part of physics and generally the harder of the first two physics courses one would take. I didn't find it bad, just froze up when I'm getting asked questions while I was asking for help.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, boredom was often my downfall in high school, thus my crusade for higher level classes for higher level students! In talking with experienced classroom teachers, they are uniform in their belief that dealing with a room full of bored students is much worse than dealing with a room full of students who "just aren't getting it", as the bored students are usually that way because they are bright, and can find more ways to get into trouble.
That jerk in EP2! Heck, if I'd been on the spot, I might not have been able to come up with the answer myself, although with the daughters having been in Geometry fairly recently, I can spit it out now. Doggone it, Geometry had been, at that point for you, at least four years earlier, I suspect. It's not like you couldn't look it up and go "ah, yes, that's it", assuming it didn't pop into your head as you were leaving his office.
That jerk in EP2! Heck, if I'd been on the spot, I might not have been able to come up with the answer myself, although with the daughters having been in Geometry fairly recently, I can spit it out now. Doggone it, Geometry had been, at that point for you, at least four years earlier, I suspect. It's not like you couldn't look it up and go "ah, yes, that's it", assuming it didn't pop into your head as you were leaving his office.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
Sadly as soon as he answered it I was well on my way to recalling it. So my getting my B was my silent way of sticking it to him! Such is life.
I agree, bored students are usually that way because they are bright and can absorb information and need the challenge. When not challenged then the mind wanders to things more 'challenging' and 'thrilling' if you will. Hehe. Fortunately for me, that turned into just writing code for a simple card game and nothing destructive.
Sadly as soon as he answered it I was well on my way to recalling it. So my getting my B was my silent way of sticking it to him! Such is life.
I agree, bored students are usually that way because they are bright and can absorb information and need the challenge. When not challenged then the mind wanders to things more 'challenging' and 'thrilling' if you will. Hehe. Fortunately for me, that turned into just writing code for a simple card game and nothing destructive.
lindainks55 said:
Hi Danny. It is quiet. I'm feeling a bit disgruntled and think NOT posting would be best. I am of tne of the opinion that NOT saying the bad things I think is prudent. And, I will get over this. I always do. Why would anyone choose to remain unhappy? So I'll get busy being happier and more accepting...
I remember my Mother saying to me the grumpy little girl, "You can just get glad in the same shoes you got mad in!" I was always taught it was mostly up to me to decide my attitude.
I am going to paint today. And listen to music instead of news.
I remember my Mother saying to me the grumpy little girl, "You can just get glad in the same shoes you got mad in!" I was always taught it was mostly up to me to decide my attitude.
I am going to paint today. And listen to music instead of news.
Danny said:
Linda,
Sounds like a plan. I've been mildly put out by a bug in some piece of software I'm working on. Yet, stepping through it one line of code at a time works. Need to find out where it is broken, but not having alot of luck with it yet.
Sounds like a plan. I've been mildly put out by a bug in some piece of software I'm working on. Yet, stepping through it one line of code at a time works. Need to find out where it is broken, but not having alot of luck with it yet.
RD said:
Am I behind or what?
>Me: Tonya Lynn, don't you know what causes that!?
This really has me laughing, Linda. After trying for three years, my first was born four days before our fourth anniversary. Two years later, my second. Two more years, and my third. Several friends asked me that same question.
At my 10-year high school reunion, I was the only one without a child. At my 20-year, I was pregnant with my fourth. (A late bloomer, my ob-gyn said. *grin*) I was awarded Most Changed, because, as one of the guys put it, "You weren't ever pregnant in high school."
My reply? "Not because any of you didn't try, right?"
I was kidding, of course, as was he. My guy friends and I always had a running battle of words. In HS, they spent lunch hour trying to gross me out. I was the only girl that gave as good as she got. Unfortunately, I've lost my touch over the years.
Ah, youth!
>Me: Tonya Lynn, don't you know what causes that!?
This really has me laughing, Linda. After trying for three years, my first was born four days before our fourth anniversary. Two years later, my second. Two more years, and my third. Several friends asked me that same question.
At my 10-year high school reunion, I was the only one without a child. At my 20-year, I was pregnant with my fourth. (A late bloomer, my ob-gyn said. *grin*) I was awarded Most Changed, because, as one of the guys put it, "You weren't ever pregnant in high school."
My reply? "Not because any of you didn't try, right?"
I was kidding, of course, as was he. My guy friends and I always had a running battle of words. In HS, they spent lunch hour trying to gross me out. I was the only girl that gave as good as she got. Unfortunately, I've lost my touch over the years.
Ah, youth!
Vaughn Tolle said:
We had been married 7+ years before our first one was born. In response to concerned queries from my mother, and from my wife's parents, we just kept it light, along the lines of "practicing is just so much fun".
Vaughn Tolle said:
For those who haven't ventured out yet, the price of gas has declined to a mere $3.19 per gallon at various spots, including Quick Trips, in Wichita. Wonder if this is "real" or just a temporary reprieve?
lindainks55 said:
So doh-dah is down to the national average.
Remember when we thought ONE dollar was high, our outrage at TWO dollars. Now we're supposed to feel good about dropiing to the national average!?
Remember when the death toll in Iraq hit 1,000? And we were sad and sorry. Then 2,000? Then 3,000? How many thousands of our soldiers will need to die before it's enough? How many Iraqi's?
I really don't want to learn acceptance of any of these figures! I'm hanging on to my outrage.
Remember when we thought ONE dollar was high, our outrage at TWO dollars. Now we're supposed to feel good about dropiing to the national average!?
Remember when the death toll in Iraq hit 1,000? And we were sad and sorry. Then 2,000? Then 3,000? How many thousands of our soldiers will need to die before it's enough? How many Iraqi's?
I really don't want to learn acceptance of any of these figures! I'm hanging on to my outrage.
Danny said:
Until gas comes back down around 2.80 or less, I won't drive any significant amount at all. My way of getting back into shape and sticking it to the oil man!
So I ride my bike to and from work. Bought my wife a bike(she doesn't normally ride) and we do groceries together. Have a little attachment for the back of both of them, one for my current kid and one for groceries. Works out well.
So I ride my bike to and from work. Bought my wife a bike(she doesn't normally ride) and we do groceries together. Have a little attachment for the back of both of them, one for my current kid and one for groceries. Works out well.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, I suspect you'll be in fairly decent shape come the fall.
While I agee with Linda on not accepting the current figure, I know that while I can rail, take the bus, walk, and try to reduce my personal consumption of petroleum products, in the totality of things, it won't do anything to change things. Have you heard the comments about still going to the lake and boating over the Memorial Day weekend? Basically, folks are going to do it, regardless of the price.
Demand continues to rise, notwithstanding the pump price of gasoline. Is there no longer a general price elasticity of demand? I say no, especially in light of urban sprawl, and the feeling of many, if not most, Americans that driving their vehicle is a natural right granted them at the moment of their birth.
The increase in demand for oil from China and India, in particular, gives me little reason to think that the world price therefor will be affected by a decrease in demand in the U.S. As has been pointed out by many commentators, it isn't the price of oil that has resulted in the current gasoline price "surge" (sorry, couldn't help myself :-)), but the dimunition of refining capacity due to fires, maintenance shut downs, etc. that resulted in gasoline stocks being at an 11 year low this month.
Oh, well, back to work. I feel better with my rant over and done with.
While I agee with Linda on not accepting the current figure, I know that while I can rail, take the bus, walk, and try to reduce my personal consumption of petroleum products, in the totality of things, it won't do anything to change things. Have you heard the comments about still going to the lake and boating over the Memorial Day weekend? Basically, folks are going to do it, regardless of the price.
Demand continues to rise, notwithstanding the pump price of gasoline. Is there no longer a general price elasticity of demand? I say no, especially in light of urban sprawl, and the feeling of many, if not most, Americans that driving their vehicle is a natural right granted them at the moment of their birth.
The increase in demand for oil from China and India, in particular, gives me little reason to think that the world price therefor will be affected by a decrease in demand in the U.S. As has been pointed out by many commentators, it isn't the price of oil that has resulted in the current gasoline price "surge" (sorry, couldn't help myself :-)), but the dimunition of refining capacity due to fires, maintenance shut downs, etc. that resulted in gasoline stocks being at an 11 year low this month.
Oh, well, back to work. I feel better with my rant over and done with.
Gster said:
I'm listening to another stellar performance press conference by Bush. I'm really surprised that the stock market doesn't tank after that!
Frightening!
Frightening!
Vaughn Tolle said:
On the next installment of the Senate Intelligence Committee report on Iraq. Reading this revealed nothing that surprised me in any way, other than there are dissenting Republicans on the committee to the report itself.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/24/iraq.missed...
And Gster: checked the market within the past hour?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/24/iraq.missed...
And Gster: checked the market within the past hour?
Gster said:
From what I saw, it looked as if it was going down during the performance- is that what you saw?
If he talks on Iranian TV, maybe he could.... hmmmmm.
A secret weapon??
The Shrub Effect?
If he talks on Iranian TV, maybe he could.... hmmmmm.
A secret weapon??
The Shrub Effect?
Vaughn Tolle said:
That's what I saw. The official explanation is disappointing economic news. Traders don't like uncertainty, and I suspect the performance by the dissembler in chief caused them to see uncertainty.
On another topic, now I understand why Monica G. was asserting her Fifth Amendment rights given her testimony yesterday. I shake my head in incredulity over her testimony concerning personnel experience (she was elected "Student Body President" once) prior to her job in the White House. Directly or indirectly, she contradicted the testimony of both McNulty and AG AG before the committee, in part at least.
Another irregularity pointed out by her testimony was the apparent attempt by our AG to influence her testimony. Would post the link, but couldn't copy it without registering with WaPo, and in general, I refuse to register with any site such as a media site as a matter of principle.
On another topic, now I understand why Monica G. was asserting her Fifth Amendment rights given her testimony yesterday. I shake my head in incredulity over her testimony concerning personnel experience (she was elected "Student Body President" once) prior to her job in the White House. Directly or indirectly, she contradicted the testimony of both McNulty and AG AG before the committee, in part at least.
Another irregularity pointed out by her testimony was the apparent attempt by our AG to influence her testimony. Would post the link, but couldn't copy it without registering with WaPo, and in general, I refuse to register with any site such as a media site as a matter of principle.
Vaughn Tolle said:
From the same article: she testified, witiingly or unwittingly, to an impermissible politicization of the Department of Justice. She noted that she would be setting up a legal defense fund soon, which I suspect she's going to need.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
I agree with you. I don't think my not buying gas is going to do anything to stop rising gas prices. However, it saves me money and is good exercise in addition to my exercise I do daily.
What I've read is that the diminished refining capacity(intentional as they switched to summer blends and/or did maintenance and unintentional as fires and mishaps occured) has caused a shortage in our reserve supplies. Thus the "need" for raising prices to stave off an outage of gasoline. However, if it isn't curbing our driving practices(and demand is continually rising), then is the price at the pump doing its 'intended' purpose?
I'd argue no, if the intent is to get people to not drive as much. I'd argue yes, if it is to pad investors wallets. I tend to think that some of it is really meaning to get us to drive less, but some of it is also stock protection.
Now, I can't help but wonder, if we were to make a push into more renewable energy sources(read wind, solar, etc) and convert gas heaters into electric heaters, thus reducing the strain on one type of gas product, could the efforts in producing that then be applied to vehicle gasoline? If so, would it help to control the price at the pump?
Well in the mean time, I'll stick to riding a bike.
I agree with you. I don't think my not buying gas is going to do anything to stop rising gas prices. However, it saves me money and is good exercise in addition to my exercise I do daily.
What I've read is that the diminished refining capacity(intentional as they switched to summer blends and/or did maintenance and unintentional as fires and mishaps occured) has caused a shortage in our reserve supplies. Thus the "need" for raising prices to stave off an outage of gasoline. However, if it isn't curbing our driving practices(and demand is continually rising), then is the price at the pump doing its 'intended' purpose?
I'd argue no, if the intent is to get people to not drive as much. I'd argue yes, if it is to pad investors wallets. I tend to think that some of it is really meaning to get us to drive less, but some of it is also stock protection.
Now, I can't help but wonder, if we were to make a push into more renewable energy sources(read wind, solar, etc) and convert gas heaters into electric heaters, thus reducing the strain on one type of gas product, could the efforts in producing that then be applied to vehicle gasoline? If so, would it help to control the price at the pump?
Well in the mean time, I'll stick to riding a bike.
Rox said:
Gee, my old 10-speed is still out at the farm, but I doubt it would do me any good. A friend's son left it in our driveway once while visiting, and I ran over it. :( I do wonder how long I'd last riding it through the Pawnee road construction... (Would I look like the bike, all bent up?)
Danny, methinks the rise in price is more for pocket lining than attempting to curb use. Unfortunately, I put my $20 dollars worth of gas (now, that's a laugh) in at the $3.29 price, but it's good to see it go down a little. It's great that you're conserving AND getting fit at the same time.
As for prices going down if renewable energy sources were used to their advantage. The uber-wealthy won't see their wallets get any slimmer. In time, those oil companies will buy out the small wind, solar, etc. companies, and we'll continue to pay them. You know how the old song goes, right?
Every morning
Every evening
Ain't we got fun
Not much money
Oh but honey
Ain't We Got Fun
The rent's unpaid dear
We have'nt a bus
But smiles were made dear
For people like us
In the winter
In the summer
Don't we have fun
Times are bum and getting bummer
Still we have fun
There's nothing surer
The rich get rich and the poor get children
In the meantime
In between time
Ain't we got fun
Every morning Every evening
Don't we got fun
Twins and cares dear
Come in pairs dear
Don't we have fun
We've only started
As mommer and pop
Are we downhearted
I'll say that we're not
Landlords mad and getting madder
Ain't we got fun
Times are bad and getting badder
Still we have fun
There's nothing surer
The rich get rich and the poor get laid off
In the meantime
In between time
Ain't we got fun
Night or day-time
It's all play-time
Ain't we got fun
Hot or cold days
Any old days
Ain't we got fun
If wifie wishes
To go to a play
Don't wash the dishes
Just throw them away
Street car seats are awful narrow
Ain't we got fun
They won't smash up our Pierce Arrow
We ain't got none
They've cut my wages
income tax will be so much smaller
When I'm paid off
I'll be laid off
Ain't we got fun
Danny, methinks the rise in price is more for pocket lining than attempting to curb use. Unfortunately, I put my $20 dollars worth of gas (now, that's a laugh) in at the $3.29 price, but it's good to see it go down a little. It's great that you're conserving AND getting fit at the same time.
As for prices going down if renewable energy sources were used to their advantage. The uber-wealthy won't see their wallets get any slimmer. In time, those oil companies will buy out the small wind, solar, etc. companies, and we'll continue to pay them. You know how the old song goes, right?
Every morning
Every evening
Ain't we got fun
Not much money
Oh but honey
Ain't We Got Fun
The rent's unpaid dear
We have'nt a bus
But smiles were made dear
For people like us
In the winter
In the summer
Don't we have fun
Times are bum and getting bummer
Still we have fun
There's nothing surer
The rich get rich and the poor get children
In the meantime
In between time
Ain't we got fun
Every morning Every evening
Don't we got fun
Twins and cares dear
Come in pairs dear
Don't we have fun
We've only started
As mommer and pop
Are we downhearted
I'll say that we're not
Landlords mad and getting madder
Ain't we got fun
Times are bad and getting badder
Still we have fun
There's nothing surer
The rich get rich and the poor get laid off
In the meantime
In between time
Ain't we got fun
Night or day-time
It's all play-time
Ain't we got fun
Hot or cold days
Any old days
Ain't we got fun
If wifie wishes
To go to a play
Don't wash the dishes
Just throw them away
Street car seats are awful narrow
Ain't we got fun
They won't smash up our Pierce Arrow
We ain't got none
They've cut my wages
income tax will be so much smaller
When I'm paid off
I'll be laid off
Ain't we got fun
lindainks55 said:
Vaughn, I read several articles about this president's Monica. I agree with everything you said! However, I am waiting to see how everything will be swept under the rug. I have lost any hope that any politician will actually expect accountability. They're all bought and paid for and the only duty that seems to matter is getting reelected. AND WE REELECT THEM!
Gster said:
What's the thinking abut what will happen if in Sept. the powers that be determine that the "surge" flopped? Will we circle the wagons, or fold up our tent and come home , or do the George thing and stick out head back into the sand?
It will be interesting to watch the Iraq problem be resolved, if it ever is.
??
It will be interesting to watch the Iraq problem be resolved, if it ever is.
??
Danny said:
Rox,
I agree I think there is some padding of the wallets(alot?) and I also think though that there may actually be some intent to curb our demand for gasoline. With that said, I think that the dependence on our vehicles is often an indication of our poor planning for public transportation(none where I live) to not providing good means for human powered transportation(bike trails to get through most places where one lives).
All,
Yet, I recognize these all cost money(tax payer money), but if people were to use these things they'd be good investments. I was reading on a technical website I visit often(arstechnica.com), about how in health the U.S. ranks pretty low. How much of it is due to our(stereotype alert) obesity and lack of exercising(guilty of this myself until really recently) vs. how much is due to lack of insurance for those whose jobs do not provide for it?
We spend more on health insurance than most other nations, but we have less healthy people. Yet, we are the best in life-saving when dealing with things like cancer, but poor in diabetes and heart disease. The latter two can be controlled by lifestyle changes(I know this, used to be on high blood pressure medicine because of lack of exercising and poor diet choices). Started exercising and cut all fast food out of my diet and my blood pressure slowly began to drop and the doctor had to take me off my medication(not everybody will see that result I'm sure).
Anyway, it was just that with prices of gas rising it has affected me in ways much better than I really was thinking it would. I drive less, exercise more and actually feel alot better about it.
Gster,
Let me ask the question, what if there is improvement in some areas, and not in others would that indicate flop, partial failure, or partial success? Is there some place that shows what the criteria are for grading the success or failure of the troop surge?
Linda,
We should run. However, I don't think I want to have that much power. I'd have all kinds of people who'd hate me. :D
I agree I think there is some padding of the wallets(alot?) and I also think though that there may actually be some intent to curb our demand for gasoline. With that said, I think that the dependence on our vehicles is often an indication of our poor planning for public transportation(none where I live) to not providing good means for human powered transportation(bike trails to get through most places where one lives).
All,
Yet, I recognize these all cost money(tax payer money), but if people were to use these things they'd be good investments. I was reading on a technical website I visit often(arstechnica.com), about how in health the U.S. ranks pretty low. How much of it is due to our(stereotype alert) obesity and lack of exercising(guilty of this myself until really recently) vs. how much is due to lack of insurance for those whose jobs do not provide for it?
We spend more on health insurance than most other nations, but we have less healthy people. Yet, we are the best in life-saving when dealing with things like cancer, but poor in diabetes and heart disease. The latter two can be controlled by lifestyle changes(I know this, used to be on high blood pressure medicine because of lack of exercising and poor diet choices). Started exercising and cut all fast food out of my diet and my blood pressure slowly began to drop and the doctor had to take me off my medication(not everybody will see that result I'm sure).
Anyway, it was just that with prices of gas rising it has affected me in ways much better than I really was thinking it would. I drive less, exercise more and actually feel alot better about it.
Gster,
Let me ask the question, what if there is improvement in some areas, and not in others would that indicate flop, partial failure, or partial success? Is there some place that shows what the criteria are for grading the success or failure of the troop surge?
Linda,
We should run. However, I don't think I want to have that much power. I'd have all kinds of people who'd hate me. :D
Gster said:
Danny- That's a good question. As I understand it, Gen. Petrieus (sp?) is going to make the determination, which asks the question- will he be muzzled if he doesn't give the "correct" answer?
I think Bush lacks the capacity to change his mind no matter what facts are presented. Any change will have to come from Congress.
I think Bush lacks the capacity to change his mind no matter what facts are presented. Any change will have to come from Congress.
lindainks55 said:
I agree any change will have to come from Congress. Bush needs to blame this on someone. He cannot change the course, or bring the toops home while he is still in office because that would make him accountable. The only way this can end while he is still in office is by the decision of someone else. He will then have someone to lay all the blame on.
Vaughn Tolle said:
The political calculus on Iraq is interesting to watch. The White House, IMHO, desparately wants the Dems to become an "owner" of the mess, and has designed its political strategy to see this is accomplished. The Dems, again IMHO, are falling into this trap.
September is the magic date, to be sure. With all sides apparently conceding that Gen. Petraeus' report will be the lynchpin for further action, it will be interesting to hear what the general has to say. No matter what he says, Congress will not be able to take meaningful action to change the course of the war unless sufficient numbers of GOP senators change their positions to ensure the needed 60 votes for cloture on a fillibuster. Then, and only then, will a change in policy be forthcoming, which may not be successful unless a sufficient number of folks in the Congress, both houses, both parties, will band together to override any veto.
I don't know what the effect of the upcoming 2008 election will be on the positions of those running for reelection in this pas deux. I suspect positions will change dependent upon the polling in the State/district of the Senator/member of the House, which, I believe strongly, was the cause of the passage of the "supplemental" without deadlines. In other words, there was not enough sure support in the various States, etc., that voting for deadlines was without grave risk.
Yes, Linda, we reelect them. And so it goes.
September is the magic date, to be sure. With all sides apparently conceding that Gen. Petraeus' report will be the lynchpin for further action, it will be interesting to hear what the general has to say. No matter what he says, Congress will not be able to take meaningful action to change the course of the war unless sufficient numbers of GOP senators change their positions to ensure the needed 60 votes for cloture on a fillibuster. Then, and only then, will a change in policy be forthcoming, which may not be successful unless a sufficient number of folks in the Congress, both houses, both parties, will band together to override any veto.
I don't know what the effect of the upcoming 2008 election will be on the positions of those running for reelection in this pas deux. I suspect positions will change dependent upon the polling in the State/district of the Senator/member of the House, which, I believe strongly, was the cause of the passage of the "supplemental" without deadlines. In other words, there was not enough sure support in the various States, etc., that voting for deadlines was without grave risk.
Yes, Linda, we reelect them. And so it goes.
lindainks55 said:
I think the people (minds) behind bush have two qualities that far exceed any on the other side -- they are more devious and excel at getting the political advantage. They truly know how to make the silk purse from the sows ear. Since few voters pay attention to more than the sound bites it works well. bushco comes out of the pile of feces smelling like roses. They ALL (the Republicans, the Democrats and every other ilk of politician) stink to me!
Gster said:
I see Bush's Iraq problem as that of a guy holding a sack of hornets- he doesn't want to hold the sack all day, but if he puts it down, out come the hornets after him.
The Iraq Govt ( Shea) is going to retain and gather more power at the expense of the Sunnis. This will almost guarantee the Sunni using force to fight back, in an on going civil war.
Bush can yell and scream at the Iraqi govt. , but they are "duly elected" , and can do what they want. They won't tell the U.S. to leave for obvious reasons, so the status quo seems the most likely outcome for some time to come, with us paying the bills!
Leave now, or leave later, the Iraqi people will find their political equilibrium through violence at some point in time. No one can stop that action.
IMHO
The Iraq Govt ( Shea) is going to retain and gather more power at the expense of the Sunnis. This will almost guarantee the Sunni using force to fight back, in an on going civil war.
Bush can yell and scream at the Iraqi govt. , but they are "duly elected" , and can do what they want. They won't tell the U.S. to leave for obvious reasons, so the status quo seems the most likely outcome for some time to come, with us paying the bills!
Leave now, or leave later, the Iraqi people will find their political equilibrium through violence at some point in time. No one can stop that action.
IMHO
Vaughn Tolle said:
Gster, you are correct IMHO concerning the finding of the equilibrium. You are also correct concerning the actions of the current government; I read an article concerning proposed appointments by the current Iraq government, and surprise, surprise, the religious affiliation of every one of them was Shia, not a Sunni to be found. This, of course, ignores the Kurds who, as far as I can tell, are gladly ignoring the government.
Gster said:
What really bothers me is that this conflict between these sects was clearly common knowledge and knowable prior to the invasion.
The Senate Intell. committee formerly headed by Pat "Party Line" Roberts is going to issue a preliminary finding showing a CIA study released before the invasion predicted the problems currently being found. That ought to stir the pot!
The Senate Intell. committee formerly headed by Pat "Party Line" Roberts is going to issue a preliminary finding showing a CIA study released before the invasion predicted the problems currently being found. That ought to stir the pot!
Vaughn Tolle said:
Yeah, Gster, read that. I find it fascinating that the intel folks were saying that internally at the same time the academics and others with long term knowledge of the area were making similar statements in public, for which they were roundly criticized.
lindainks55 said:
a sack of hornets. gster, you always give me a great visual with just the perfect words!
How many people do you guys think really keep up with the ins and outs and are well enough informed to even be aware of that long-delayed report from the Senate Intelligence Committee? I bet a majority of Kansas voters are oblivious to the part Roberts played in that.
so, we reelect them.
How many people do you guys think really keep up with the ins and outs and are well enough informed to even be aware of that long-delayed report from the Senate Intelligence Committee? I bet a majority of Kansas voters are oblivious to the part Roberts played in that.
so, we reelect them.
Danny said:
I have an opinion about Iraq but I'm willing to see how the troop surge plans out. I'm interested in reading what General Petraeus' report has to say and then make a better informed decision about the next steps(withdraw or continue).
The question, and I'm certain each of us has a different threshold for determining success, is how much improvement has to have happened to consider this showing signs of success or being successful? Rhetorical question more or less and maybe some can answer it, I can't yet.
Nathan, I think here or on the Eagle's blog brought up an interesting point also. Our military wasn't prepared for IEDs, as an example, so we probably went into more reaction mode for a while as opposed to proactive mode. I think the military works best in a proactive mode.
A different topic, I've read a little on the 'other' blog, however it seems to still be much name calling from both sides of the fence and I don't feel the tremendous urge to look to see who started what, which is why I've not felt terribly compelled to go there. I may disagree with someone but the last thing I'll do is call someone a name. Doing so just ruins in good arguments I or anybody makes.
Gster,
On a mostly different topic, I recalled talking about videogames and violence, the U.S. Army produces a free game called America's Army. I think they use it as a recruiting tool, no charge to play and apparently has really high reviews.
The question, and I'm certain each of us has a different threshold for determining success, is how much improvement has to have happened to consider this showing signs of success or being successful? Rhetorical question more or less and maybe some can answer it, I can't yet.
Nathan, I think here or on the Eagle's blog brought up an interesting point also. Our military wasn't prepared for IEDs, as an example, so we probably went into more reaction mode for a while as opposed to proactive mode. I think the military works best in a proactive mode.
A different topic, I've read a little on the 'other' blog, however it seems to still be much name calling from both sides of the fence and I don't feel the tremendous urge to look to see who started what, which is why I've not felt terribly compelled to go there. I may disagree with someone but the last thing I'll do is call someone a name. Doing so just ruins in good arguments I or anybody makes.
Gster,
On a mostly different topic, I recalled talking about videogames and violence, the U.S. Army produces a free game called America's Army. I think they use it as a recruiting tool, no charge to play and apparently has really high reviews.
Gster said:
With the general public's increasing dissatisfaction with Iraq, the release of this report, and its findings, are very likely to generate a firestorm.
I hope it clearly shows the futility and immense difficulty involved in nation building.
I hope it clearly shows the futility and immense difficulty involved in nation building.
Danny said:
Linda,
I do my best to keep informed and I'll admit I'm not fully informed of everything. Though understand I'm for certain things, as they relate to national security, being secret. However, those things probably should be small in number and grave in consequence if they were known by people outside.
With that said, I didn't know about this report until just now. I think what we see is a great number of people just vote along party lines and only switching when things seem bad under the currently elected leadership. Then add in that the majority of the younger generation doesn't vote or is very apathetic about the political process and the elections end up being skewed to an older generation. I don't know how that plays into the hands of one party or set of ideals or if it even matters other than as time goes on are we only going to see 25% of the people deciding the fate of the country?
I do my best to keep informed and I'll admit I'm not fully informed of everything. Though understand I'm for certain things, as they relate to national security, being secret. However, those things probably should be small in number and grave in consequence if they were known by people outside.
With that said, I didn't know about this report until just now. I think what we see is a great number of people just vote along party lines and only switching when things seem bad under the currently elected leadership. Then add in that the majority of the younger generation doesn't vote or is very apathetic about the political process and the elections end up being skewed to an older generation. I don't know how that plays into the hands of one party or set of ideals or if it even matters other than as time goes on are we only going to see 25% of the people deciding the fate of the country?
Danny said:
Gster,
On the firestorm I think you are correct. There is alot hanging on the report, but I hope that it is an honest assessment of what is going well and what hasn't been working. I'll leave it at that.
On the firestorm I think you are correct. There is alot hanging on the report, but I hope that it is an honest assessment of what is going well and what hasn't been working. I'll leave it at that.
Gster said:
Danny- Prior to the Iraq invasion, there was a 5 million $ study by the State Dept. regarding an invasion of Iraq and its consequence. It accurately predicted the problems and troublesome areas. It was given to the Pentagon and put on a shelf somewhere. I guess it didn't have enough pictures to hold the reader's interest!
That is all hindsight now, but in retrospect, there sure is a lot of hindsight available now!
That is all hindsight now, but in retrospect, there sure is a lot of hindsight available now!
Danny said:
Gster,
So, it sounds like a report was made to tell us the areas we'd likely have to deal with when we invade, but wasn't used? Guess this is going to be one of those things that make me think. I agree about hindsight. Granted in looking back, hindsight is supposedly 20/20.
So, it sounds like a report was made to tell us the areas we'd likely have to deal with when we invade, but wasn't used? Guess this is going to be one of those things that make me think. I agree about hindsight. Granted in looking back, hindsight is supposedly 20/20.
Gster said:
Danny RE: "So, it sounds like a report was made to tell us the areas we'd likely have to deal with when we invade, but wasn't used?"
That's the way I read it. I get the impression that Bushco has "my reality" and real reality, and we know how that conflict is resolved! The resultant costs, whether in human misery or $s is unbeliveable!
That's the way I read it. I get the impression that Bushco has "my reality" and real reality, and we know how that conflict is resolved! The resultant costs, whether in human misery or $s is unbeliveable!
Vaughn Tolle said:
It is my impression, Danny and Gster, that in addition to the Dept. of State report, there was a CIA study of the same vintage which came to essentially the same conclusions (which, from the article I read, the Committee is requesting be unclassified). These reports may among the reasons for the Pentagon office being set up for a "fresh look" at the intel by Mr. Rumsfeld, IIRC, at the behest of the VP.
Gster said:
I don't know if Bush led others to the conclusion to invade Iraq, or whether he was led by Cheney, Wolf the Whiz and Rumsfeld.
I tend to suspect the latter is the more likely scenario- those guys are not only much "smoother" than Bush, but a lot smarter in a manipulative sinister way!
IMHO (again)
I tend to suspect the latter is the more likely scenario- those guys are not only much "smoother" than Bush, but a lot smarter in a manipulative sinister way!
IMHO (again)
Vaughn Tolle said:
Maine's attempt to deal with its "brain drain" problem. Is this something that Kansas should look at?
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/3...
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/3...
Gster said:
Vaughn, This seems a good idea, although from reading some of the comments, it's not perceived as a panacea by the potential comsumers. It seems that what are seen as "good jobs" must be available before this tax benefit would be seen as desirable. It's certainly working looking at with the idea of modification to meet the needs here.
Gster said:
Vaughn- You sure are agreeing with my conclusions today. Are you getting easy or am I getting lucky??
CLICK (smart ass OFF)
CLICK (smart ass OFF)
Danny said:
I read quickly that article Vaughn. My thoughts, and this comes from my chosen degrees and subsequent interviews, are there need to be jobs to make this appealing. However, there probably still needs to be more.
I don't know that a tax break is what is needed. It wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it would have the impact hoped for. A couple things to think about, the target audience age: 21 to 25 roughly and what they desire in places to live and work. Hip and trendy come to mind. Now granted I've been more realistic, hip and trendy cost money, but some of that can be met through entertainment venues and advertising those venues that already exist.
Further, I think keeping college graduates here starts with keeping the highschool students in state also. So probably selling our colleges is something we need to do. Initially, I was looking at UT: Austin and then settled on Kansas State. I think for Kansas we need to attract a more diverse employer base, and likely we need to make concessions and compete for some of these employers. AMD, for instance, was recently expanding, we should have tried to attract them, granted the cost to do so would have been pretty steep but I think within our grasp.
It is just from my perspective as a computer science/criminology major. Not so much tax break for me, but showing we are working to get jobs for a diverse base of graduates.
I don't know that a tax break is what is needed. It wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it would have the impact hoped for. A couple things to think about, the target audience age: 21 to 25 roughly and what they desire in places to live and work. Hip and trendy come to mind. Now granted I've been more realistic, hip and trendy cost money, but some of that can be met through entertainment venues and advertising those venues that already exist.
Further, I think keeping college graduates here starts with keeping the highschool students in state also. So probably selling our colleges is something we need to do. Initially, I was looking at UT: Austin and then settled on Kansas State. I think for Kansas we need to attract a more diverse employer base, and likely we need to make concessions and compete for some of these employers. AMD, for instance, was recently expanding, we should have tried to attract them, granted the cost to do so would have been pretty steep but I think within our grasp.
It is just from my perspective as a computer science/criminology major. Not so much tax break for me, but showing we are working to get jobs for a diverse base of graduates.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, you are correct about the need to attract a more diverse base of employers. I suspect that a tax break as Maine is considering (available to employers, BTW, alternatively to the individual employee as I read it) could help enhance the attractiveness of Kansas, but it would all start, as in the AMD example, with an educated base.
A note on some of the comments I read to the linked article. At least one of the posters failed to comprehend the fact that a tax credit, not a tax deduction, was being proposed, making his comments close to meaningless. I posted the link as Maine, as is Kansas, is facing a shrinking young population, its traditional industries becoming less meaningful, etc. While it (ME) does have tourism going for it, the loss of jobs in the textile area, the lumbering area, the decline in the lobster catch, etc., etc., has had a devastating effect on the state.
As far as an attractive (to young people) place to reside/work in ME, I would suggest anyone interested look at Portland, ME. The largest city, some 67000, there are many things going on there which, were I younger whether single or not, would attract my attention. This is in stark contrast to the second-largest municipal area, Lewiston-Auburn (ME's "twin cities"), the location of Bates College, which is clearly in need of a "shot in the arm" economically.
A note on some of the comments I read to the linked article. At least one of the posters failed to comprehend the fact that a tax credit, not a tax deduction, was being proposed, making his comments close to meaningless. I posted the link as Maine, as is Kansas, is facing a shrinking young population, its traditional industries becoming less meaningful, etc. While it (ME) does have tourism going for it, the loss of jobs in the textile area, the lumbering area, the decline in the lobster catch, etc., etc., has had a devastating effect on the state.
As far as an attractive (to young people) place to reside/work in ME, I would suggest anyone interested look at Portland, ME. The largest city, some 67000, there are many things going on there which, were I younger whether single or not, would attract my attention. This is in stark contrast to the second-largest municipal area, Lewiston-Auburn (ME's "twin cities"), the location of Bates College, which is clearly in need of a "shot in the arm" economically.
Danny said:
Vaughn,
I agree. Education is going to be an important factor in attracting businesses(more technical related business) and thus I think selling our colleges to those graduating from highschool is going to be important. Some of my friends for instance(one who graduated valedictorian) went out of state because our in state schools seemingly don't portray the same confidence in themselves.
So selling our colleges to employers I think involves selling our colleges to our youth. Further, I think we need to make it attractive to start businesses here. To which, I think we've attempted to do that and took some steps in the right direction. I think more can be done though. Take me, it isn't that Kansas is bad but it seems other places offer more in the way of opportunity. I had one interview in Kansas(I took that job) out of 30 or 40 places I applied for. My wife from Colorado convinced me to apply for some jobs in Colorado, and had the pay been a little better I may have been there. In Colorado, I applied for 10 or 15 jobs and had 8 interviews and two job offers.
After factoring in the cost of living vs. pay, I chose to stay in Kansas. I don't know that most college students do that and I think some of that stems from the internal perception of ourselves. Something I think we need to work on, because like it or not those on the outside see that. I think we need advertise what we have(education and entertainment) and improve things that are not up to par(image and self perception). Some of this may require identifying things unique to us, and selling those things up.
Easy to type out, but not so easy to come up with a solution.
I agree. Education is going to be an important factor in attracting businesses(more technical related business) and thus I think selling our colleges to those graduating from highschool is going to be important. Some of my friends for instance(one who graduated valedictorian) went out of state because our in state schools seemingly don't portray the same confidence in themselves.
So selling our colleges to employers I think involves selling our colleges to our youth. Further, I think we need to make it attractive to start businesses here. To which, I think we've attempted to do that and took some steps in the right direction. I think more can be done though. Take me, it isn't that Kansas is bad but it seems other places offer more in the way of opportunity. I had one interview in Kansas(I took that job) out of 30 or 40 places I applied for. My wife from Colorado convinced me to apply for some jobs in Colorado, and had the pay been a little better I may have been there. In Colorado, I applied for 10 or 15 jobs and had 8 interviews and two job offers.
After factoring in the cost of living vs. pay, I chose to stay in Kansas. I don't know that most college students do that and I think some of that stems from the internal perception of ourselves. Something I think we need to work on, because like it or not those on the outside see that. I think we need advertise what we have(education and entertainment) and improve things that are not up to par(image and self perception). Some of this may require identifying things unique to us, and selling those things up.
Easy to type out, but not so easy to come up with a solution.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Danny, there is much truth in what you posted at 2:17. As all know, my two girls went out of state to college, and do not plan on returning. The reasons for going out of state were, in large part, connected to perceived educational advantages of the insititutions in which each matriculated. Another factor was the aid package each was offered, which allowed (net cost) them to attend school at a lower cost to them and us.
The reason for not coming back include no suitable professional opportunities for them, or in the case of the elder, her spouse. Another is, at least in the mind of the younger, the political climate of Kansas in general and Wichita in particular.
Attracting new business will involve selling our institutions of higher learning, no doubt. Other avenues to explore include our willingness to accept new ideas, developing a tolerance for diverse lifestyles, a change in the overall political climate of the state; there are surely many more, but the specified ones are quite important, IMHO.
I would add, in the case of Wichita, that there must be diverse business interests in which the spouses may be employed. Many couples come to Wichita, both with degrees, one having found suitable employment but the other has great difficulty in doing so. This was one of the multitude of reasons Pizza Hut had difficulty with attracting and retaining its midlevel management folks; usually, the employee was male, and his wife was frustrated in not finding suitable employment in the profession she had the education to pursue. Call it what you will, this was a large problem for Pizza Hut.
The reason for not coming back include no suitable professional opportunities for them, or in the case of the elder, her spouse. Another is, at least in the mind of the younger, the political climate of Kansas in general and Wichita in particular.
Attracting new business will involve selling our institutions of higher learning, no doubt. Other avenues to explore include our willingness to accept new ideas, developing a tolerance for diverse lifestyles, a change in the overall political climate of the state; there are surely many more, but the specified ones are quite important, IMHO.
I would add, in the case of Wichita, that there must be diverse business interests in which the spouses may be employed. Many couples come to Wichita, both with degrees, one having found suitable employment but the other has great difficulty in doing so. This was one of the multitude of reasons Pizza Hut had difficulty with attracting and retaining its midlevel management folks; usually, the employee was male, and his wife was frustrated in not finding suitable employment in the profession she had the education to pursue. Call it what you will, this was a large problem for Pizza Hut.
Vaughn Tolle said:
An opinion piece asserting deep divisions within the White House between hawks and realists. The author's conclusion is that President Bush is likely not able to manage this, and the result will be a drift for the remaining 20 months of his term.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opklu255228...,0,4165525.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opklu255228...,0,4165525.column?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines
Vaughn Tolle said:
Darn it! Keep forgetting about tinyurl.com!
The link below will get you to the editorial I posted of above. My apologies for not doing this first.
http://tinyurl.com/yp44jd
The link below will get you to the editorial I posted of above. My apologies for not doing this first.
http://tinyurl.com/yp44jd
Danny said:
Vaughn,
I think, given my semi-conservative leanings, there is more than can be done here. To me it doesn't matter if one is democrat or republican, but it does matter on the ideals of the individual and group.
For instance, I do a good job in separating my religious beliefs from politics. Though my beliefs do influence my voting decisions somewhat, read as I do factor them in as part of the overall picture of who I vote for. I don't vote for someone though strictly on the view of my religion however.
So there are issues that I think need to change in our society. For instance, I don't think homosexuals cause familial problems. Nor do I think that that lifestyle causes the destruction of the family. However, because of some ingrained prejudices people don't accept that lifestyle and thus do not want to extend basic civil union rights to couples who do choose that lifestyle(either through choice, biology, or whatever). Religious beliefs preclude me from thinking the activity is morally acceptable, but I do try to not judge that which harms no one.
But then you get me on the case of abortion, and its another story. I'm very much against it, because of where life begins. Conception is the first developmental stage of life. It isn't saying that there is intelligence there, or that this is more than a few cells but that we all started at that stage non-the-less. On the same token, I'm realistic in understanding that several issues have to be addressed to lessen the number of abortions sought each year: providing access to birth control(pre- and post- sexual activity), punishing those in a manner necessary to prevent rape and incest, as advances in medicine occur then medical necessity drops also, and accepting teenage mothers and not making them feel bad about being pregnant. All of these take time and I support groups who address these issues to further the cause of lessening abortion impact on society.
I guess, I think there are solutions that are more ethical and possible to achieve but take work. Maybe based on how I was raised, but working toward something worthwhile is satisfying. My dad used to tell me, "I can't control the world, the world can't control me, but somewhere in there is a way to influence each other and make a difference. One just has to find it and be willing to work toward it honestly."
I think, given my semi-conservative leanings, there is more than can be done here. To me it doesn't matter if one is democrat or republican, but it does matter on the ideals of the individual and group.
For instance, I do a good job in separating my religious beliefs from politics. Though my beliefs do influence my voting decisions somewhat, read as I do factor them in as part of the overall picture of who I vote for. I don't vote for someone though strictly on the view of my religion however.
So there are issues that I think need to change in our society. For instance, I don't think homosexuals cause familial problems. Nor do I think that that lifestyle causes the destruction of the family. However, because of some ingrained prejudices people don't accept that lifestyle and thus do not want to extend basic civil union rights to couples who do choose that lifestyle(either through choice, biology, or whatever). Religious beliefs preclude me from thinking the activity is morally acceptable, but I do try to not judge that which harms no one.
But then you get me on the case of abortion, and its another story. I'm very much against it, because of where life begins. Conception is the first developmental stage of life. It isn't saying that there is intelligence there, or that this is more than a few cells but that we all started at that stage non-the-less. On the same token, I'm realistic in understanding that several issues have to be addressed to lessen the number of abortions sought each year: providing access to birth control(pre- and post- sexual activity), punishing those in a manner necessary to prevent rape and incest, as advances in medicine occur then medical necessity drops also, and accepting teenage mothers and not making them feel bad about being pregnant. All of these take time and I support groups who address these issues to further the cause of lessening abortion impact on society.
I guess, I think there are solutions that are more ethical and possible to achieve but take work. Maybe based on how I was raised, but working toward something worthwhile is satisfying. My dad used to tell me, "I can't control the world, the world can't control me, but somewhere in there is a way to influence each other and make a difference. One just has to find it and be willing to work toward it honestly."
lindainks55 said:
I read your thoughts at your InstaSpot blog, Danny. I respect your opinions whether I agree or not. Isn't that what America is founded on? Our basic personal freedoms are what our Constitution promises.
I really think most people are much more alike than different. We all want challenges and successes, safety, to love and be loved, health, to grow in knowledge and understanding, to have the rights to make the life of our choice as long as it's neither illegal nor (as you said) harming no one.
It's usually when we try to inflict our belief system on another when both are legal and causing no threat or harm to another that brings the conflict, division...
I am very against restricting the rights of anyone because if we don't protect them all they all are endangered. If we pick one religion over others we endanger them all.
For example, I don't believe the words "Under God" ever belonged in the pledge of allegiance to my beloved country. I remember well when I had to relearn the pledge of allegiance to add those words. The pledge is an affirmation of loyalty to the United States, not to God. The founders of my country fought a war to gain freedom from oppression of all kinds. This country was founded on the premise that everyone has many freedoms, including the freedom to worship as they choose.
The surest way to lose your own rights is to take away the rights of another. Conversely, the best way to protect your rights is to protect the rights of another, even better when that person doesn't agree with you.
The pledge is a minor minor issue but since it's a clear cut declaration of religion by a Government agency it should be brought into line with the stated principals of this country.
Another thought to chew on: Why do Christians overlook the fact that biblically the case can be made that we shouldn't be pledging our allegiance to the flag in the first place?
I really think most people are much more alike than different. We all want challenges and successes, safety, to love and be loved, health, to grow in knowledge and understanding, to have the rights to make the life of our choice as long as it's neither illegal nor (as you said) harming no one.
It's usually when we try to inflict our belief system on another when both are legal and causing no threat or harm to another that brings the conflict, division...
I am very against restricting the rights of anyone because if we don't protect them all they all are endangered. If we pick one religion over others we endanger them all.
For example, I don't believe the words "Under God" ever belonged in the pledge of allegiance to my beloved country. I remember well when I had to relearn the pledge of allegiance to add those words. The pledge is an affirmation of loyalty to the United States, not to God. The founders of my country fought a war to gain freedom from oppression of all kinds. This country was founded on the premise that everyone has many freedoms, including the freedom to worship as they choose.
The surest way to lose your own rights is to take away the rights of another. Conversely, the best way to protect your rights is to protect the rights of another, even better when that person doesn't agree with you.
The pledge is a minor minor issue but since it's a clear cut declaration of religion by a Government agency it should be brought into line with the stated principals of this country.
Another thought to chew on: Why do Christians overlook the fact that biblically the case can be made that we shouldn't be pledging our allegiance to the flag in the first place?
lindainks55 said:
Something more -- I think praying to God is not appropriate in public schools. Parents, churches, private schools, any citizen or private entity really, can expose children to God all they want. And Comparative religion or religious history can be taught in public schools. And prayer groups can meet after school on school property, as long as ALL groups can.
Why is it so hard for some to understand that the best way to maintain religious freedom for everybody is to keep Government out of everybody's religion?
What if God thinks as little of America as Mother Theresa did? What if we absolutely break his heart with our arrogance, testosterone driven ideals, worship of money, war head control freak selfishness. What if he thinks that as long as there are starving masses, no one in America should be driving a Hummer, or nobody with a 40" waist should be loading up on chili cheese fries at a drive-thru?
What if God looks at us and thinks what a shame... they had a great start, they were given the best of everything. It's not enough, they want more, and this greed will be their ultimate self-destruct. What if he doesn't WANT His name on our money and in our national pledge? What if that isn't even the point? What if that's not what he meant at all by being worshipped?
What if HE thinks the "greatest nation in the world" is Sodom and Gomorrah gone wild? What if he uses a different yardstick to measure "greatness' than we do?
I don't like it when people say we have to leave the word God in a pledge or on a building because it's what makes us great, and without it we will all fall down. His name is not a freakin lucky rabbit's foot!! He knows what's in hearts and souls. And if we put His name all over the place like some talisman, he likens it to the empty clanging of a bell.
Oh, and in the UK it's all about the Queen, not God. Her face is on everything from money to trees.
When you find that you need to defend your freedoms it is already too late. The best way to protect your freedom is to protect the freedom of somebody else. In this way we all stay free.
Why is it so hard for some to understand that the best way to maintain religious freedom for everybody is to keep Government out of everybody's religion?
What if God thinks as little of America as Mother Theresa did? What if we absolutely break his heart with our arrogance, testosterone driven ideals, worship of money, war head control freak selfishness. What if he thinks that as long as there are starving masses, no one in America should be driving a Hummer, or nobody with a 40" waist should be loading up on chili cheese fries at a drive-thru?
What if God looks at us and thinks what a shame... they had a great start, they were given the best of everything. It's not enough, they want more, and this greed will be their ultimate self-destruct. What if he doesn't WANT His name on our money and in our national pledge? What if that isn't even the point? What if that's not what he meant at all by being worshipped?
What if HE thinks the "greatest nation in the world" is Sodom and Gomorrah gone wild? What if he uses a different yardstick to measure "greatness' than we do?
I don't like it when people say we have to leave the word God in a pledge or on a building because it's what makes us great, and without it we will all fall down. His name is not a freakin lucky rabbit's foot!! He knows what's in hearts and souls. And if we put His name all over the place like some talisman, he likens it to the empty clanging of a bell.
Oh, and in the UK it's all about the Queen, not God. Her face is on everything from money to trees.
When you find that you need to defend your freedoms it is already too late. The best way to protect your freedom is to protect the freedom of somebody else. In this way we all stay free.
Rox said:
Well said, Linda!
As for the report on pre-Iraq intelligence, I read somewhere today that it's being pooh-poohed by many on the Hill, who say the information didn't come from "official agencies". Excuse me? Is the State Department not official, and doesn't it deal with our interaction with foreign countries? And the CIA? Oh, maybe it's officially unoficial.
Speaking of the CIA, I picked up a couple of books at the Art & Book Fair last Saturday on that subject, along with Bob Woodward's final book in the "series" on George Bush. If I could remember the titles, I'd post them. I'm interested in knowing if anyone has read them. But I can't find the big bag they're in. Yes, a bulldozer would be very handy at this point in time.
As for the report on pre-Iraq intelligence, I read somewhere today that it's being pooh-poohed by many on the Hill, who say the information didn't come from "official agencies". Excuse me? Is the State Department not official, and doesn't it deal with our interaction with foreign countries? And the CIA? Oh, maybe it's officially unoficial.
Speaking of the CIA, I picked up a couple of books at the Art & Book Fair last Saturday on that subject, along with Bob Woodward's final book in the "series" on George Bush. If I could remember the titles, I'd post them. I'm interested in knowing if anyone has read them. But I can't find the big bag they're in. Yes, a bulldozer would be very handy at this point in time.
Rox said:
This should be entitled Embarrassment. I found the books...on the bookshelf in my bedroom. Short-term memory loss.
COMPROMISED, Clinton, Bush and the CIA (that's Bush 1)
From Mena, Arkansas, to the White House: How the Presidency was Co-Opted by the CIA
Terry Reed and John Cummings
PLAN OF ATTACK
Bob Woodward
THE CIA AND THE CULT OF INTELLIGENCE
Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks
All hardcover, and I bought them at $2 each, which of course doesn't help the authors, but I figure Woodward isn't hurting for money, nor are the others, probably. *grin*
Has anybody read any of these?
COMPROMISED, Clinton, Bush and the CIA (that's Bush 1)
From Mena, Arkansas, to the White House: How the Presidency was Co-Opted by the CIA
Terry Reed and John Cummings
PLAN OF ATTACK
Bob Woodward
THE CIA AND THE CULT OF INTELLIGENCE
Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks
All hardcover, and I bought them at $2 each, which of course doesn't help the authors, but I figure Woodward isn't hurting for money, nor are the others, probably. *grin*
Has anybody read any of these?
Danny said:
Linda,
I agree. I know people don't share the same views, and you are right I think they should have that right. Similarly, I don't think it is my place to force my religion on someone.
Just my views on abortion are more an indication of injustices toward women than it is women's rights. Strange and seemingly counter-intuitive at first thought. But you read my profile blog, maybe more than some have done. LOL
And you know, I'll defend your right to disagree with me. I know not too many people will do that when talking about the very hot topic issues. I just have my thoughts. I don't think abortion will ever truly go away, but I think working toward lessening its impact goes a long ways to reducing how many are sought each year, to me working toward that goal alone is probably worthwhile. I guess I really do consider it a travesty.
I agree. I know people don't share the same views, and you are right I think they should have that right. Similarly, I don't think it is my place to force my religion on someone.
Just my views on abortion are more an indication of injustices toward women than it is women's rights. Strange and seemingly counter-intuitive at first thought. But you read my profile blog, maybe more than some have done. LOL
And you know, I'll defend your right to disagree with me. I know not too many people will do that when talking about the very hot topic issues. I just have my thoughts. I don't think abortion will ever truly go away, but I think working toward lessening its impact goes a long ways to reducing how many are sought each year, to me working toward that goal alone is probably worthwhile. I guess I really do consider it a travesty.
Danny said:
Linda,
Prayer in public schools. That is an interesting one. I agree, it probably shouldn't be there at least not in a form that it "encourages" one religion, group of religions, etc. Moment of silence where students could say a prayer in silence if so chosen or read a little before class starts or something, I don't see a probably with that per se. However, it does then become dangerously close to opening the door to getting religion put into public schools.
It is an issue that I wonder about. Comparative religions class? I think that would be acceptable. This way one is exposing students to the many beliefs that exist. Again the problem lies in, does it cover all the religions superficially? If not, then are the beliefs of each religion being treated equally?
Personally, public schools probably ought not have religion, comparative or otherwise introduced in them. Likewise with prayer in them. It introduces alot of questions that must be answered in order address each belief system out there.
So, I guess it comes down to understanding each other and understanding that there are differences in how each person views something. Be it a belief in a religion, a belief in an idea, a belief in a cause, or whatever else. So in a public school system, I staying away from religion is best unless it can be presented in a neutral format.
Prayer in public schools. That is an interesting one. I agree, it probably shouldn't be there at least not in a form that it "encourages" one religion, group of religions, etc. Moment of silence where students could say a prayer in silence if so chosen or read a little before class starts or something, I don't see a probably with that per se. However, it does then become dangerously close to opening the door to getting religion put into public schools.
It is an issue that I wonder about. Comparative religions class? I think that would be acceptable. This way one is exposing students to the many beliefs that exist. Again the problem lies in, does it cover all the religions superficially? If not, then are the beliefs of each religion being treated equally?
Personally, public schools probably ought not have religion, comparative or otherwise introduced in them. Likewise with prayer in them. It introduces alot of questions that must be answered in order address each belief system out there.
So, I guess it comes down to understanding each other and understanding that there are differences in how each person views something. Be it a belief in a religion, a belief in an idea, a belief in a cause, or whatever else. So in a public school system, I staying away from religion is best unless it can be presented in a neutral format.
lindainks55 said:
Danny, I don't "believe" in abortion either. I just KNOW I can't make the decision for anyone else. I "believe" it should be legal, safe and available. I agree our resources would be better spent figuring out how we lessen the impact of unwanted pregnancy, unwanted and uncared for children.
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