US to try youngest person ever for War Crimes
National News
Omar Khadr was just 15 when he was captured by US forces in July of 2002. He was shot three times, including one shot that nearly blinded him. Since then he has been at Guantanamo Bay in the prison camp.
Before you start feeling too sorry for this young man, he did kill one Green Beret, SGT Christopher Speer, and wounded another soldier, hitting both with a single grenade.
He is being tried for murder, attempted murder, contributing to terror, conspiracy, spying, and, I believe a few other choice items. Apparently a few of the conspiracy charge was for acts committed before he was 10?
Given the fact that we now have this and footage of a 12 year old cutting the head off of a Taliban "traitor", plus the multitudes of images of boys with guns, mock-suicide vests, etc. I guess my question or comment on this trial is:
"How accountable are these youth?"
15 Years Old is just old enough to know that what you are doing is probably wrong under normal circumstances, but more than likely, Omar had never experienced anything BUT violence for the majority of his life....
Thoughts?
~Dubya
Julie said:
I think he should be afforded a FAIR trial and be held accountable for his actions.
Whether or not he has been exposed and raised in a very violent situation doesn't really matter. It can show why he made the choices that he did but in the end it was his choice to participate.
Whether or not he has been exposed and raised in a very violent situation doesn't really matter. It can show why he made the choices that he did but in the end it was his choice to participate.
Danny said:
My thoughts on the matter is, how he was raised, what environment he grew up in may all influence a decision he had made. His age potentially may keep him from fully understanding the consequences of that decision. Yet he did still make that decision, but was he forced to have make that decision? Such as, family was threatened with death if I didn't lob this grenade?
Ultimately, he did make the decision though.
Ultimately, he did make the decision though.
lindainks55 said:
Recent studies have proven such things as a part of the brain that recognizes danger doesn't fully develop until around 20ish. That's how I learned to water ski in the Mississippi River among the floating debris with nary a care in the world. I don't know how Lady Luck brought me through those crazy dare-devil years!
It's possible other brain functions aren't mature at 10 - 15 years of age either. I do think it's less likely a young person understands consequences or even the concept of the future in the same way a more mature person does. When does a person realize just how final death is?
I agree he needs to be held accountable. If he wasn't taught during his childhood he must learn (the hard way) now. I don't think the same standards of accountability as applied to an adult are apropos.
It's possible other brain functions aren't mature at 10 - 15 years of age either. I do think it's less likely a young person understands consequences or even the concept of the future in the same way a more mature person does. When does a person realize just how final death is?
I agree he needs to be held accountable. If he wasn't taught during his childhood he must learn (the hard way) now. I don't think the same standards of accountability as applied to an adult are apropos.
rm6046 said:
A 15 y/o can be certified as an adult in criminal proceedings anywhere in the US. A lot of kids grow up in bad situations and overcome their earlier environment. End of story.
Wendy said:
This is a tough one. My argument is this (and I in no way mean to trivialize what he has done or anything of the sort, and of course he deserves some kind of punishment, but to try him as an adult, well I have a hard time seeing that point) - right and wrong are LEARNED responses. So if he grew up in an environment where killing people in the name of whomever was standard practice, then wouldn't he learn that was the "right" thing to do? How can we hold him accountable for doing what he thought was right?
Vaughn Tolle said:
rm is correct about 15 year olds being certified for trial as adults in criminal actions in every jurisdiction in the U.S. of which I know anything.
Wondering if he was "sold" or "kidnaped", etc., with threats made against his family if he didn't follow orders? I don't mean to excuse his actions in any way, but as I understand it, the above is not uncommon in various parts of the world.
Wondering if he was "sold" or "kidnaped", etc., with threats made against his family if he didn't follow orders? I don't mean to excuse his actions in any way, but as I understand it, the above is not uncommon in various parts of the world.
lindainks55 said:
Hopefully, all the unanswered questions and pertinent facts will be presented and this young person will be given a FAIR trial as Julie mentioned.
rm, are you an attorney? I will completely understand if you choose not to answer.
rm, are you an attorney? I will completely understand if you choose not to answer.
WSClark said:
At the risk of being called a sympathizer with terrorists, etc, I have to wonder how this is different from any soldier in any conflict. I am not excusing or justifying in any way and I certainly grieve for the Green Beret that was lost, but wasn't this young man fighting for the Taliban during the US invasion? If he was fighting under the juridiction of his country's government, doesn't that make him a POW?
My concern would be the flip side of this equation - would an American soldier be charged with murder if he was captured by a foreign power?
Let me again clearly state that I am not sympatizing with him in any manner, but I see a certain slippery slope that we are going down and it may hurt our troops in the future.
My concern would be the flip side of this equation - would an American soldier be charged with murder if he was captured by a foreign power?
Let me again clearly state that I am not sympatizing with him in any manner, but I see a certain slippery slope that we are going down and it may hurt our troops in the future.
Vaughn Tolle said:
WS, from Dubya's OP, it isn't clear that the young man was fighting for the Taliban or under the aegis of the government of Afghanistan.
Vaughn Tolle said:
Resorting to "the google" while thunder rolls...
It appears the young man was a member of al Quaeda, thus would not be a POW under current international law, but an "enemy combatant" at best.
It appears the young man was a member of al Quaeda, thus would not be a POW under current international law, but an "enemy combatant" at best.
WSClark said:
If in fact he was a member of al Qaeda, it changes the equation somewhat, but I still have my concerns about setting precedent for American soldiers in the future.
We may not always be the top dog in every conflict. In WW II, the Japanese assumed that they would win, so they completely ignored Geneva Convention guidelines for treatment of prisoners of war. Are we courting future problems for our troops if try combatants as criminals rather than POW's?
Again, not defending, but questioning.
We may not always be the top dog in every conflict. In WW II, the Japanese assumed that they would win, so they completely ignored Geneva Convention guidelines for treatment of prisoners of war. Are we courting future problems for our troops if try combatants as criminals rather than POW's?
Again, not defending, but questioning.
Dubya said:
I guess I just take issue with pressing this kid through the meat grinder as a terrorist when he never really had a chance. I mean "Conspiracy" before age 10?
The kid who was 12 Y/O and cut the head off of that al Qaeda traitor...did he really KNOW what he was doing? Did he comprehend at that point that he was extinguishing another life? Does it matter from a punishment perspective?
People are VERY OFTEN sympathetic to the Africans who are kidnapped and pressed into services as "soldiers" in rag tag guerilla units. In fact, people like Oprah seem to go out of their way to make it seem like it's not their fault; they were forced into it; brainwashed...
Just curious why that same sentiment doesn't seem to apply here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend this particular situation...just wanted to chat about how more and more of these kids seem to be getting into these situations.
~Dubya
The kid who was 12 Y/O and cut the head off of that al Qaeda traitor...did he really KNOW what he was doing? Did he comprehend at that point that he was extinguishing another life? Does it matter from a punishment perspective?
People are VERY OFTEN sympathetic to the Africans who are kidnapped and pressed into services as "soldiers" in rag tag guerilla units. In fact, people like Oprah seem to go out of their way to make it seem like it's not their fault; they were forced into it; brainwashed...
Just curious why that same sentiment doesn't seem to apply here.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend this particular situation...just wanted to chat about how more and more of these kids seem to be getting into these situations.
~Dubya
WSClark said:
The question is, what do you do with him, Dubya? Can't release him. Can't reeducate him (most likely)
These kids that are indoctrinate from an early age that violence is the only solution and that everyone is an enemy are truly dangerous.
On this one, I have no idea how to answer the question.
These kids that are indoctrinate from an early age that violence is the only solution and that everyone is an enemy are truly dangerous.
On this one, I have no idea how to answer the question.
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